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posticon Quitting Vicodin with Kratom - my personal experience.


Hi Everyone,
I have seen interest on many boards about using Kratom to minimize withdrawal symptoms while kicking a hydrocodone addiction. I am going to try it myself, and I will post my experience here as it unfolds. I hope that this may be a help to others who are looking for a way out without the horrible WD symptoms I've read so much about.

I am currently taking eight to ten hydrocodone 10/325's per day. Some days I take up to 15, some days as few as 6, but I usually take about eight or ten. I have been doing this for a little over a year for chronic myofascial pain in my neck and shoulders. As my tolerance has built, so has my dosage. I am now taking them because I have to in order to avoid withdrawals, and not just for pain. I am tired of the effect it is having on my life and also my wallet. I still have pain but want to find other ways to deal with it, so I am going to try Kratom to avoid as many of the WD symptoms as I can. My plan is to use it on a short-term basis to get off the hydros. I don't want to trade one addiction for the other! So as as soon as I feel that I have kicked the Hydro, I will taper off the Kratom (assuming it works).

I just ordered 50 Grams of the premium powder. With a free upgrade to Express shipping I believe it will go out tomorrow and arrive on Friday (Thursday being Thanksgiving). Depending upon what time it arrives I will start taking it on Friday or Saturday, and I will document my experience here. I hope this is helpful to others!

edited to make it bolder easier to read ,thank you

Last edited by StarWisher, Nov/29/05, 8:00 am
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posticon Re: Quitting Vicodin with Kratom - my personal experience.


Welcome Momtwotwogirls ! If you placed it yesterday it went out yesterday you should receive tracking info shortly , if you didn't get the tracking let me know i'll send it, but all orders went out express yesterday so you should have it Friday.

Thanks for sharing your experience. I was up to about that many before I started kratom and the super is what I suggest for that high a tolerance, so i'm glad you got that type. In the beginning you may need to take more and more often and try to start on a day before you take any other pain med, almost in w/ds and then you can judge by 2 gr at at time (apx 1 tsp) wait 20 min if you still feel the need for a pain med craving w/d's etc take another 1/2 tsp til that feeling goes away and you feel a focused [sign in to see URL] me at my high tolerance it took about grams 2tsp for the first few weeks , i tapered completely in one week, had no craving for them at all and still have pain meds for the MS just in case but rarely even think about taking one , imagine a whole rx lasting 2 months. emoticon

The thing was I was buying so often and so little at time the shipping was killing me financially and sometimes i'd get some type that didn't work as well as others (they vary alot from vendor to vendor , what tree , country etc it's from , but to make it standardized would make it a scheduled rx and then we're back to square 1 )

anyway I just want to let you know that not so you buy bulk but the prices lately from all wholesalers have gone up b/c of the HIGH demand suddenly ( I wonder why ? emoticon

So we're trying to keep the price down and lowered the prices on regular and super so i really do suggest those , the enhanced i'd get to have just in case b/c once I ran out of super and had a delayed shipment and was in SUCH bad w/ds (this was after 2 or 3 weeks) I didn't ever have w/ds' b/c i started w/ kratom right away when i knew it was time to stop and live longer as I know I was killing my liver - but the w/ds were pure hell until the shipment got here, so always have enough on hand to avoid that I never in my life thought it would be so bad but it was the worst experience I ever had. (plus being 45 and just about menapause time which it seems to help with too , not medical advice , just personal experience)

Now that you're a member you can get in the members area if you haven't already, it's just a matter of clicking on that request membership, i get an email telling me someone wants in , and then i go approve it. That's the way these boards are set up so if i'm not at the computer that moment it might take a few minutes but i check very often so don't worry about that. I change the specials often so check. I may start doing all orders overnight since priority is not such priority and they don't actually guarentee the 2-3 day delivery ! So If I do that i'll just include it in the shipping and handling chg.

Well just so you know you may need more than it's stated at first b/c of the high tolerance, and it's important to find the dose that's right for YOU everyone is different , and try to start on an empty stomach if you can handle just swallowing it chase w/water than a warm tea or coffe ( I use blue lotus or red poppy ) it enhances kratom - ( see posts under herbs / botany below) It helps it work faster. (you may have gotten a sample with your order, if so info is below on how to use the herbs)

If you have any questions just ask, PM or email !

Thanks for sharing and we look forward to hearing about your experience and progress !

Have a wonderful Thanksgiving !
  
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Nov/24/05, 10:25 am Link to this post Send Email to StarWisher   Send PM to StarWisher
 
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Re: Quitting Vicodin with Kratom - my personal experience.


Okay, my order arrived and I have it in my hands, I got the free express upgrade and I ordered it on Wed., Thurs. was Thanksgiving, and it arrived this morning around 11:00 am. Included was a free incense stick and a sample of red poppy. Nice touch! I am not going to use the red poppy right away. I am going to start out with 1 Tsp. of the Premium powder mixed in a spoon full of yogurt, then a cup of coffee (warm liquid)as recommended. I have not taken a vicodin yet today, no real withdrawals yet, just a little jumpy with twitchy legs. My last pill was last night about 11:00 pm, I took two (hydro 10/325).

I do want to mention that during the order process Jan was awesome! I emailed her some questions before and after I ordered, and she was so nice and helpful, always got back to me right away. The product arrived even earlier in the day than I expected, and so far the entire process has been first rate. I am going downstairs now to take my first dose. It is 1:30 pm Pacific time. I am committed to recording this journey so I will post again as soon as I either feel the effects, or decide to try more.

Jan, thanks for everything!


edited just to make bolder easier to read , thank you ~

Last edited by StarWisher, Nov/29/05, 8:01 am
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Re: Quitting Vicodin with Kratom - my personal experience.


Okay, I took a tsp. of premium powder with yogurt, drank half a cup of coffee. I sat and watched the clock and waited and waited. At 40 minutes I started to feel pretty discouraged because I didn't feel anything, and the posts I'd read before said people were feeling the effects within 15-20 minutes. I started to think that I was cursed to be a person for whom this doesn't work, when I had such high hopes. So I went into the kitchen and took another 1/4 teaspoon. About two minute after that I started to feel the first dose. It wasn't anything dramatic. I read one post where someone said they got the same sense of well-being as they had from hydros, and I didn't feel anything like that. But my WD symptoms had started to show up, heavy, twitchy legs, my tummy started to get kind of rumbly like I shouldn't stray too far from the toilet. And I started to get that wierd dizzy/head spacey thing that happens to me when I don't take the hydro, especially when I turn my head too quickly, I've never heard anyone else mention that but it happens to me. Anyway, when the first dose started to kick in I just immediately felt better. My WD symptoms disappeared and I feel fine. I will be curious to see what happens when the extra 1/4 tsp. kicks in but for now I feel probably as normal as I have felt in a year, because I'm not high on hydros, and I'm not WDing. I do feel a sort of clarity that's hard to explain. But as for the WD's (although mine were only in the very beginning stages) it definitely, definitely got rid of them. I read some people say that they felt some extra energy and I haven't experienced that yet, sure would like to. But I feel good. Normal.

Regarding my hydro use, each day I would try to wait as long as possible to take my first pill. Most days I caved in around noon, the longest I ever made it was 4:30 in the afternoon (when the WD's would start to make themselves known). It is now almost 3:00 and I have no desire to take a pill yet. I am going to go soak in the hot tub for while and then take a shower, see how I feel.

Oh, and regarding pain, my back doesn't hurt at all, I think the Kratom is actually doing a really good job with pain relief. Of course my pain comes and goes anyway, but it is always there to some degree and I don't feel it at all right now.

One more thing, just an extra note to the drama. I have an order of 90 10/325's arriving today, I ordered them before i had decided to do this and was unable to cancel because of the holiday. Usually when that package arrives I rip it open and immediately take at least two. It will be a true test of this stuff to see what happens when that FedEx arrives.

Thank you all for sharing with me. Feel free to ask anything, and I will definitely keep you posted.

edited to make bolder easier to read thank you

Last edited by StarWisher, Nov/29/05, 8:02 am
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Re: Quitting Vicodin with Kratom - my personal experience.


Well, it has now been more than 24 hours without a pill, and I have not experienced a single WD symptom. I have to say that it is amazing that something can so completely alleviate withdrawals. I will be very curious to see how I feel when I wake up in the morning, and to see how well I sleep tonight.

I've read that Kratom can act as a sedative or a stimulant depending upon the dose, but for me it feels more like a stimulant. In fact I am wondering if it will affect my ability to sleep tonight. Not that I feel all cranked up, but I do feel more stimulated. Once in a while I feel a little speedy but it comes and goes quickly. The only thing I've felt that is remotely like a WD is a flash of heat, not even dramatic enough to call it a hot flash, more like a warm flash. But it isn't uncomfortable and it doesn't last, so it doesn't bother me at all. My total Kratom intake today was as follows: 1tsp at 1:30 pm, another 1/4 tsp. at about 2:20. Then another 1.5 tsp. at about 5pm. Another tsp. at 7, and then I took two tsp. together at 10:00 because I was feeling so wide-awake and hoped that a larger dose would have more of a sedative effect. But I honestly didn't feel much difference between the 1tsp. dose and the 2 tsp. dose. I am still very much awake. Not amped up or speedy, just very alert. I actually would like to be feeling a little more of a sedative effect now that it is so late at night, but considering how I know I would feel if I was going cold turkey without the Kratom, I am not about to complain. I read other people say that Kratom gave them a feeling very similar to hydro, that sense of well-being. I also read in several places that it is used as an opium substitute, and can give that same euphoric feeling as a narcotic. But I haven't experienced any of that. I guess maybe it is because I built my tolerance so much with the hydro, which I'm guessing would mean I require a much larger dose for that effect. I must guiltily confess that I am a little disappointed about that, as I was kind of looking forward to it. But in truth it is probably for the best because it reduces the chance that I'll trade one bad habit for another. As it is right now, the Kratom makes me feel very awake and I am completely withdrawal free. Nothing short of a miracle, in my opinion. I honestly didn't think it was possible to feel this good 24 hours into being clean.

I hope all this info is helpful to some of you. I know this is only the first day, but my experience so far with the Kratom is amazing. I'll post tomorrow to let you all know how my first night's sleep goes, and how I feel in the morning.

edited to make bolder easier to read, I'm so thrilled you're doing so well , thank you for sharing this..

Last edited by StarWisher, Nov/29/05, 8:04 am
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Re: Quitting Vicodin with Kratom - my personal experience.


Hi Mom

Looking to do the same, quit norco's. Please keep us updated! Its so cool hearing your updates. Thanks!



just made bolder .. thanks

Last edited by StarWisher, Nov/29/05, 8:04 am
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Re: Quitting Vicodin with Kratom - my personal experience.


Well, if you look at the time of this post (I am in Pacific Standard and it is 11:30) and I tell you that I woke up 20 minutes ago, you will see what kind of a miracle this Kratom really is. I was up late because I didn't feel tired at all as I mentioned in my last post yesterday, I think I went to be around 2:30. But I slept GREAT! No busy legs, no sweats, no tossing and turning. I couldn't believe it when I rolled over and looked at the clock. I was afraid that I would have trouble sleeping because the Kratom made me feel so alert, but once I was in bed with my eyes closed, I went right out. When I woke up I felt great, ready for coffee and the paper. I have not had any Kratom yet and I am going to wait until I feel that I need it. For the moment I feel fine, I am enjoying my second cup of coffee and I am glad that it is Saturday so that I could sleep in for so long. Luckily my girls are old enought to take care of themselves in the morning on weekends.

I'll let you all know when I need to take the K again and how much, and all those other details, but for right now I am truly in awe. It almost feels too good to be true. Whenever I contemplated quitting the hydro I would think about how awful I felt when I got low on meds, and the thought terrified me. To feel this good so far is unbelievable. Again, thank you all for your interest and support. I'll check in again soon.

edited to make bold thank you so much for sharing ~

Last edited by StarWisher, Nov/29/05, 8:05 am
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Re: Quitting Vicodin with Kratom - my personal experience.


I just took my first Kratom today, two tsp. mixed in yogurt. And actually I didn't even feel that I needed to take it yet. I only did because I am taking my girls to the movies and I didn't want to take a chance on having WD's while sitting in the theater away from home. As it is, I am amazed that on my second day w/out hydro I am attempting an outing to the mall, on Thanksgiving weekend, no less. I am amazed at how good I feel. Is this what normal feels like? It has been so long that I'm not even sure about that, but whatever it is, I'll take it! It has now been over 38 hours since my last dose of hydro and I am cruisin' along just fine. As I mentioned earlier, this almost seems too good to be true! When I read about the hell that others have gone through kicking this nasty habit, I thank God and all that is good that I have been spared from that - at least so far. I know there is always the possibility that the other shoe will drop, for example quitting the Kratom may be a challenge. At this point it seems to be my next hurdle. But I am keeping a positive attitude and I really think this is going to keep going my way. I will continue to keep you posted.

editied just to make bold nothing else has been changed. thanks so much

Last edited by StarWisher, Nov/29/05, 8:07 am
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Re: Quitting Vicodin with Kratom - my personal experience.


Good morning everyone. I slept 11 hours last night. And even then, I woke up because the phone rang, don't know how long I would have slept otherwise. I slept a lot the night before too. I don't know if it is a result of the Kratom or if it is because the hydro is leaving my system. Does anyone have any ideas on that? It has been okay so far because it has been the weekend but I have to get up at 6:00 tomorrow to get my girls off to school so I'm hoping I'm not in for too rough a time.

I have not taken any Kratom yet today, wanted to post here first. I woke up this morning feeling the most WD's I have felt since starting. I'll elaborate a little later in this post. Today is day three of no hydro. I've read in many places that for purposes of a drug tox screen it takes about three days for hydro to leave the body, so I am assuming that after today it will basically be out of my system. Does anyone know if I'm correct on this? From what I've read about the experience of others the WD's are usually worse the first three days, and I'm almost over that, so I'm hoping that the hard part is over. Of couse I need to stop taking the Kratom as well, but from all I've read that will be a much smalller hump than kicking hydro. I am getting low on Kratom and I was originally going to try to order it only once, but since it doesn't give me that "high" feeling I got from hydros I feel safer getting more. I was very concerned about trading one addiction for another, but now that I've been using the Kratom I am much less concerned about that. I still only plan on using it short-term, but considering I have gone from 80-100 mg. of hydro a day to NOTHING overnight, I guess I can cut myself some slack and give myself a little more time. And this whole time I have had a brand-new, unopened, cotton stuffed bottle of 90 10/325's sitting in my medicine cabinet. And not once have I been tempted to open that bottle. If that doesn't tell you how amazing Kratom is, nothing will.

Okay, about the WD's this morning. I am sitting here typing and I still haven't taken the Kratom today, so you've probably figured out that they aren't that bad. I have that wierd, head-spacey thing a little (does anyone else get that?) and those warm flashes I mentioned in an earlier post. And I also have a hint of the busy-legs feeling, not too bad but I can feel it there. And of all the WD's the twitchy legs thing is the absolute worst for me. I almost can't bear how that feels. But all these syptoms are very mild. The only reason I say it's the worst I've experienced so far is because they're all presenting at once. But they are very tolerable and I know they don't even compare to normal cold-turkey WD's. Now, to be honest these symptoms may seem less of a problem to me because I know I have immediate relief at hand in the form of a Kratom tea I boiled up last night. If I knew I had to put up with them all day without relief, they may seem much worse to me. But even taking that into consideration, they just aren't that bad and I know I have the Kratom to thank for that.

I have been able to post quite a bit over these last few days, but my girls go back to school tomorrow so I might not make it here quite so often because I will be busy. Don't worry, I will still keep you updated, but forgive me if it takes me a little longer to get around to it from now on.


edited to make bold, not other changes made


 


Last edited by StarWisher, Nov/29/05, 8:07 am
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Hi Mom!
Wow it sounds like you are doing great!! Please keep updating every detail. You don't know how much this means to me, and I am sure many others!!!!

Thank you so much, again!!


just made bold , easier to read no other changes were made on this thread except to add bold .. thank you all

Last edited by StarWisher, Nov/29/05, 8:09 am
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Well gang, today is truly the acid test. Last night I boiled up the last of my Kratom for today's tea, knowing I'd be getting another batch tomorrow, and I left it on the stove to cool. My husband thought it was a burned pot soaking, and he DUMPED IT DOWN THE SINK! So I had to start today knowing that I had no Kratom, and I'm sure you all remember the bottle of 90 freshies sitting in my medicine cabinet. Add to the mix the fact that Mondays I spend the morning volunteering in my daughter's kindergarten class and what do you get? A (very recently) former Vicodin junkie's worst nightmare. I'm sure you can imagine the thoughts going through my mind this morning. How bad is it going to get? Should I pretend I have to flu? When will the WD's kick in and which symptoms will I have? A I going to break out in cold sweats and skin crawlies in a room full of five year olds? Will I weaken and resort to taking a pill (or few) if the WD's get too bad? You cannot imagine (well, maybe some of you can) how much I dreaded this day as it stretched ahead of me. I have felt so good about not taking ANY hydro that I really, really didn't want to backslide. Even though I know it is perfectly logical and reasonable to taper, and Know that none of you would judge me if I took a pill or two, I have felt so empowered at going cold turkey. So I guess that even more than the WD's, my biggest fear was that I would be weak in spite of all my resolve. So I headed off to school this morning free of any foreign substance hoping for the best and expecting the worst.

Well, I just got back from the school and I can't believe I'm saying this, but I FEEL FINE! How can that be? Four days ago I was taking approx. 100 mg of Hydro a day. I have not had one since. And my last cup of the magical K tea was at about 8:30 last night. Shouldn't I be feeling like total and complete @#$ right now? I know that as the evening wears on it is bound to get worse, but for the moment I feel good and not the least bit tempted to try a pill. At this point I think that even if delayed WD's happen to kick in later today, I can handle it without breaking my promise to myself. I've made it this far and I know I have more Kratom coming tomorrow, so bring it on. I'm ready for the worst. But so far, I'm feeling great and still having a hard time believing that fact.

I'm starving so I have to go eat now but I just wanted to share this amazing experience with all of you.
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Hi Mom

That is unusual that you felt no withdrawal today!! I cant figure that one out except to say that maybe the kratom is carriying you along, still.
I hope you have a good nite, but if not, the Kratom will be there tomorrow!! You are so strong not to raid the norco bottle!!
I have back problems and have been taking norco too. I want to stop taking them so much, but I am scared. It helps me so much to hear how you are doing.
I am so happy for you that things are going so well. Are you going to do a taper off of the kratom as well?
Thanks for the continued updates! Have a wonderful night.
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Hi all,

I took a two hour nap today, from 3-5. Unfortunately I woke up with that sludgy feeling a nap can sometimes cause, where you feel worse after the nap than before. But after a while I snapped out of it. I do have very mild body aches and I do feel a little lethargic, but I'm still functioning normally, handling all my tasks around the house. When I'm busy I don't even notice it. I am still hydro free, day four, and also have not had any Kratom today. I don't know how it can be possible that I can be feeling this okay, but I am so very thankful for it. Any WD symptoms I'm having are so mild that I forget about them whenever I get occupied with doing something. I do have to say that I am looking forward to getting more Kratom tomorrow because, although I don't feel horrible, I do feel a lot better when I am taking it. But if today is any indication I should be able to go without Hydro or Kratom very soon and feel perfectly fine. I know when I start my exercise program it will be a miraculous mood lifter as well, but right now I'm just focused on kicking the poison.

Theo, as far as I can figure, I am not having serious withdrawals because the Kratom relieved the symptoms during the time that I would have been going through the worst of it. From what I've read, the first three days are the worst for WD's because your body is getting the drug out of its system. Once the body is clean, from what I understand, the physical WD symptoms diminish significantly. After that you still have to deal with the resulting depression and psychological aspect of the addiction, but I think the first three (sometime four) days are the worst. From what I understand (I keep saying that because this is a VERY subjective ramble) the Kratom stimulates a part of your brain (opioid receptors type B - my label) that is similar to, but not exactly like the ones that the Hydro stimulates (opioid receptors type A). It is enough alike that it kind of fools your body into thinking that you're still taking the hydro, so it still releases the feel-good effects of the hydro, which prevents the withdrawals. Also, opioid receptors type B are a lot less likely to become dependant on getting tickled as type A, so they are a lot less likely to get upset when you stop tickling them. Meanwhile, the part of your brain that has gotten used to getting tickled by the hydro (type A) is no longer being stimulated, so that part of your brain has a crash course in learning how to do without the hydro. Apparently when your body is completely clean of the hydro the Type A finally accepts the fact that it won't be getting more, and no longer tries to create the horrible WD's in order to force you to take more.

This is a very, very simplified and unscientific description, and it is strictly just what I have gleaned from all my research. It might be (and probably is) loaded with errors, and could be completely and totally off base. If there is anyone out there who can explain this in layman's terms better than I have (which is probably just about anyone) please do!

Hope this helps and doesn't confuse you more. I am actually pretty optimistic that the worst is over as far as being at risk for withdrawal sypmtoms, and that my symptoms won't get any stronger than they are now, which is very mild.

BTW, yes I do plan to taper off the Kratom as soon as possible. I don't want to have to take anything every day. But I do think that Kratom is something I will continue to enjoy using occasionally. It didn't give me a buzz like the vikes so I'm not worried about chasing that again. Also from what I read it is a lot less addicting than hydro. It just made me feel focused and energized. I can't drink alcohol much because I get awful hangovers, I had to quit smoking pot years ago because it started giving me anxiety, but I really would love to be able to have something that can relax me from time to time and enhance my mood just a bit. Kratom seems to be a safe and LEGAL alternative.

I hope I didn't end up just confusing you more!

Last edited by momtwotwogirls, Nov/28/05, 10:29 pm
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Hi Mom.

How are you doing today?
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congrats and keep up the good [sign in to see URL] only gets better.I have not touched A pain pill in over 3 months.I took kratom for the withdrawl and it was the easiest withdrawl I ever had went [sign in to see URL] amazing.I continue to take Kratom for its fatigue relieving properties and also because when I take Kratom I have no cravings for the [sign in to see URL] stuff that helped me get my life [sign in to see URL] Care.
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Hi Natural Mom,

Congrats on your success also!! Just wondering if you could give me a quick review of what opioid you were taking,how many mg. per day were you on. Also, how long did you take kratom to successfully detox from the pain meds?
Thanks and bravo to you!!

Theo
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Mom ... I am thrilled to hear your success and have been keeping up with your progress , Thank you SO much for sharing , please continue to do so and if you need anything at all please just let me know.. i've been a little busy , but will reply asap , if I missed anyone's email , or request for access to members area please email or PM me - I hope no one minded that I made the type bold , my vision is not so great i'm trying to adjust the board to make the type larger without having to use the codes at top left , so forgive me but I really wanted to read the posts I am so happy to hear Moms experiences and updates This is so very helpful and encouraging to others including me ..

Thank you so much and I hope all is well, please keep us updated and if you need me just email or PM .. I get done with orders and all around 5 est and try to get here as often as possible but if anyone needs to reach me please don't hesitate to email as priorty urgent. jan@[sign in to see URL]



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Have a wonderful and painfree day as possible

ps i posted new December Specials in the members section

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Re: Quitting Vicodin with Kratom - my personal experience.


Hi Theo.I was taking the 10/500 lortabs and 10/325 norcos.I was up to 15 of them a day at my worst.I struggled with this off and on for ten years.I have been in rehab twice and detoxed on my own several times.I took Kratom for a little more than A week 3 times a day this was by far the easiest detox i ever had.i continue to take kratom almost every day just not as often through the day and i take A few days off now and than.
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Re: Quitting Vicodin with Kratom - my personal experience.


sorry it took me so long to post again. My girls are back in school after the Thanksgiving holiday and I work in the classrooms on Monday and Tuesday. So I have been and will continue to be busy until Christmas vacation. I'm not complaining, I love the life I lead, but it doesn't give me much of a chance to get to the computer. Anyway, it is after 2:00 and I haven't received my Kratom yet, but it should get here anytime. According to the tracking, it will be here before 3:00. So I have not had any Kratom since about 8:30 Sunday night, and no hydro. I feel a little tired, have an occasional warm flash, and I do have a little bit of gas, but all of these are very mild sypmtoms. I worked in my daughter's class again today, did fine, didn't even think about it. Don't get me wrong, I'm definitely not feeling %100. But it's no worse than how I feel when I don't get much sleep the night before, or maybe I'm just started coming down with a cold or something. i would love a nap right now. My energy level is lower than I'd like, but I am functioning fine, I'm not uncomfortable, just a little tired and lethargic.

I don't know how it is possible that I can be doing this well after taking such a high dose of hydro each day for so long, quitting cold turkey, and then running out of Kratom. I don't know, maybe there's enough K left in my system and it is carrying me. But I took it for such a short time that I don't really think that's the case. Could it be that I'm having a very delayed case of withdrawals and they just haven't kicked in yet? Does anyone have any ideas? Regardless, I am amazed and in awe of how I have been spared the pain and discomfort so many others experience when trying to kick. As far as I am concerned, Kratom is a miracle. I'll post more later but I just wanted to keep you all updated and let you know that my progress is still nothing short of MIRACULOUS!
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Re: Quitting Vicodin with Kratom - my personal experience.


Good morning everyone. natural mom, I admire you so much for sticking with it, I look forward to being you very soon. I'm curious, how much Kratom do you use now? How do you avoid becoming addicted to it? I'd like to gather as much info as possible to help me with my ongoing journey.

Well, the drama continues. I went outside to water the backyard and apparently missed the doorbell, so I did not get my Kratom yesterday! I found a slip from the mailman saying he had missed me. I would have gone to the post office to pick it up but we had an appt. to have our Christmas card portrait taken so I couldn't get there in time. Needless to say, I went the remainder of the day yesterday and all night last night without it. And I didn't feel any worse than I have been, just a little lethargic, low energy, except for one thing. After our pictures we went out to dinner and toward the end I was hit with a wave of sleepiness that was so strong I almost coudn't stay awake. It almost felt like I had taken a really strong sleeping pill or something that kicked in suddenly. My husband had to drive home, and it was all I could do to get my girls into their pajamas and into bed. I kept falling asleep while reading their bedtime story, and when we were done with that I fell asleep when they did about 8:15. I slept all the way through until the alarm went off at 6:00. I hit the snooze button twice and dragged myself downstairs, still feeling so sleepy I just wanted to crawl back into bed. It took about 45 minutes and two cups of coffee to start feeling semi-awake. Now I'm feeling fairly normal, just a liitle tired. But I've never experienced anything like that before, it came on so suddenly and was so intense. I have no idea if it was related to the hydro leaving my system, the Kratom leaving my system, or something else entirely. I can't help but believe it is related to one of them but I really can't figure it out.

I will go to the post office to pick up my Kratom after I drop my girls off at school today. After going five days without Norco and two days without Kratom, you're all probably wondering why I even need or want the Kratom at this point. It seems to me that the worst is over, so I should be able to function without it. And obviously it is better to get through the day without any chemical help. The answer is that both my girls crawled into bed with me in the middle of the night, and as a result my back is KILLING me from having to sleep in the same position last night. Although I am kicking my hydro addiction, I still do have the chronic pain that started it all, and I need to manage it. It flares up quite frequently to the point where I cannot just suck it up and tolerate it. And believe me, I'm pretty tough. Obviously hydro is not an option and the Kratom seemed to work really well for me for pain relief. My hope is that I will be able to use it from now on to manage my back pain, and because it doesn't give me the high I loved so much from the hydro, I won't be tempted to take it even when I don't have pain, which is how I got into this mess in the first place. I know a lot of people say that they get addicted to the hydro because they get tolerant and they have to take more and more to relieve their pain. That may be true, but in sticking to my complete honesty policy here, I have to be straight and admit that I got hooked because I loved how the hydro made me feel, so I took it every day whether I needed it or not. And I did build up a tolerance to it, which caused me to take more and more. But I wasn't worried about the tolerance as it affected my pain, I was worried about the tolerance as it affected my buzz. I had to take increasingly more to get that good feeling. Of course I was getting pain relief at the same time but that wasn't my focus. I only write this because it may strike a chord with others on this board who may be in the same situation. Yes, I took the pain meds for legitimate pain. But I told myself that I had to keep taking more to get relief, when in reality I took more and more to get the buzz. I was in denial about my pain and my medication, and I suspect that there are many others out there who have the same kind of denial. Looking back, I firmly believe that if I had taken my pain meds ONLY when I really needed it for pain, then I would not have gotten addicted. I know there are people out there with condictions a lot worse than mine, where pain is a constant, neverending thing. Let me be clear, I am not judging people who have debilitating, chronic pain where the quality of life far outweighs the importance of avoiding addiction. But I also think there are many others in my position, and I know that if you have legitimate pain it is easy to use it as an excuse for a lot of things. But I am done doing that. I want to manage my pain enough that I can live a normal, relatively pain-free life, and I have high hopes for the Kratom to do that. So that is why, despite the fact that I seem to be over needing it to overcome WD symptoms, I still intend to use it when needed.

My level of pain is pretty severe today, so it will be a true test of Kratom's efficacy in pain relief. I mean, I can walk and move around, but I'm hobbling around pretty slowly, and I definitely can't bend over to pick anything up. In the beginning, before I became a junkie, on pain days like today I would have taken a Norco and hit the couch while I waited for it to kick in. Once it was working I would have been able go about my day, take my kids to school and completing the tasks of my daily life. My back pain would not have affected my life too much thanks to the meds. I'm hoping to get a similar result with Kratom, the difference being of course that it doesn't make me high, so I won't tell myself that my back hurts even when it isn't that bad, just so I could get my Vicodin high. I'll let you know how it goes!
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Hi everyone,

I didn't go to the Post Office to get the Kratom until after I got my girls from school. I just couldn't handle the thought of standing in line while my back hurt like it did, so I came home, took some prescription ibuprofen, fired up the heating pad and took a two hour nap. It was great because I usually can't sleep that well during a pain flare up, but I had no problem this time. I was still feeling very, very tired, and I had the slightest touch of the busy-legs, but no real WD syptoms to speak of. When I woke up my back felt somewhat better, thanks to the ibu and the heat, so I got my girls and went to the P.O. By the time I got home, made my girls their after-school snack and boiled up some of the Kratom tea, it was almost 4:00. I gulped down that bitter, heaven sent brew and sat on the couch reading a magazine, watching the clock. If it was going to help with my back pain I wanted to see how long it would take, and how much relief I would get. Let me tell you, this stuff continues to amaze me. Within 15 minutes my pain had dropped from pretty severe (I hate to use that number scale because everyone feels pain so differently that I don't think it can acccurately describe it) to a moderate soreness. I could still feel it when I twisted or bent over, or did anything requiring a larger range of motion. But when I moved around carefully, I really didn't feel it at all. And then, wonder of wonders, after about an hour of drinking the tea I noticed that I didn't have any pain AT ALL. I could bend over, sit up or down, pick up my girls, vacuum. Anything I wanted to do. And I am not kidding, I was pain free. As I'm writing this I realize how unlikely it sounds. Especially for those of you who have back pain and know what that's all about. But it is true. I'm having a hard time believing it myself. I didn't feel the need to make more tea until 10:00. I made a sronger batch, about three grams instead of two, to get me through the night, but it worked great. My pain is strictly muscular, it doesn't involve the spine at all, so I'm sure my results aren't typical. But in addition to the analgesic effect of the Kratom, it really does feel like a muscle relaxer as well. I haven't read anything in all the research I've done that mentions muscle relaxant as on of its indications. But I can feel it, a sort of looseness in all my muscles, and a lack of tension. I don't know, maybe the HUGE weight of the hydro addiction being lifted from me has enabled me to relax. There are so many things going on with me right now, physiologically and phsycologically, that it's hard to know what is the cause of anything. After a year of heavy use I've got a highly addictive drug leaving my [sign in to see URL] worry and stress and shame -- not to mention the expense -- of that addiction was an enormous load to carry, and now that's gone. I had a new substance enter my body for a few days, and then that stopped, and now it's in my body again. On top of that, I'm having a back pain flare up which may not actually be a flare-up, it may have been present all along but I always had so much vicodin in my system that it was masked. All I know is that I am going through a detox from an opiate addiction and it for some magical reason I have been spared the horrors of WD that I've heard so much about. I just hope and pray and pray and hope that it will work this well for others.

Okay enough of that! I'll post again when I can. When I have the tiime I would like to share with you in greater detail exaclty how the Kratom feels.
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Re: Quitting Vicodin with Kratom - my personal experience.


Hi everyone, I only have a sec. Day 7 with no Vicodin. I can't tell you how happy I am to say that. I had my first cup of Kratom tea at about noon, another one at 5. Don't know if I'll need another one tonight. My pain is very minimal now, but I don't know if that's because I'm better or because of the Kratom.

I have to admit that I am a little concerned about the Kratom. It doesn't get me high like Vicodin does, but it does make me feel good. I'm taking it when i start to feel crappy (mostly I start to feel really, really tired) and it fixes me right up. I don't feel high, just better. It makes me feel really good, but I'm not sure how to explain it. Not an altered perception like other drugs. I guess it just puts me in a better mood, definitely makes me feel more motivated. The closest thing I can think of is when a really great song comes on the radio, maybe one you haven't heard in a while. You know that little boost you get? Not euphoria, ust a little elevation in mood. I'm not doing a very good job of conveying the feeling. I hope all you super smart people can manage to get what I'm trying (badly) to describe.

Anyway, my concern is that I don't want to become too dependant on this. From all that I've read, it is a lot easier to kick than narcotics, and the WD's are much milder. Some sources even question whether it is actually physically addictive, but I read a case study of a group of Thai who were chronic users and it convinced me that it definitely can be physically addicting. But it seem you have to go at it pretty hard for a long time to get to that point. I've read a few times that WDing from it is like WDing from caffeine, but I've also read a post or two where people compare it to hydro WD's. Anyway, all things considered it probably falls somewhere in the middle. It has obviously helped me immensely with kicking the hydro. When I take it I'm not seeking the mood elevation I mentioned. Right now I am using it to keep from feeling the very, very mild WD symptoms I get when I don't take it, and to manage my pain. As I mentioned before, mostly just feeling tired. But I'm hoping that eventually that will pass, and I won't need the Kratom anymore to stop feeling bad. I am using it differently than I did the hydro, once the hydro became a problem. I took the hydro to get high. I take the Kratom to prevent feeling yucky. Do you get the difference? I don't feel that I'm explaining myself all that well. Anyway, I am hoping that the day will come when I just forget to take the Kratom because I feel fine and don't need it. I'm going to try to wait longer and longer each day to take my first cup. And eventually I have hopes that I'll just forget to take it, and won't need it anymore. Does anyone think that is possible? Or do I need to make a more agressive, proactive plan? Or is it too early to worry about that yet?

I really value your opinions and would love a little advice and guidance about my next step. Please, don't be afraid to be completely honest! I'm not worried about hearing what I want to hear, I want honest, thoughtful opinions.

Thanks to you all!!
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Re: Quitting Vicodin with Kratom - my personal experience.


Hi Mom!

Oh I am so happy for you!! You made it!! I wouldn't worry about being addicted to the kratom. I have read over and over that all you have to do is taper off of kratom and you will be fine. If you could detox from norco without feeling too bad, Kratom has to be a piece of cake?! I am sure you will be fine.
I don't know when I will start my decent into detox. With all the hoopla of the holidays, I might just wait until after the 1st. Your detailed report on detoxing is so much a God send to me. I cannot thank you enough. I am not scared anymore. I know I can do this too!
Thank you again for all of your info. I hope you will continue to post and keep us up to date about how you are feeling even months from now. I know that opiates leave you feeling icky for a while after you detox, and hope that the kratom will help you (and me) sail through those months.
Have a wonderful weekend!!
Theo
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I just got my first batch of Kratom yesterday, and I'm experimenting with it. I haven't had a Lortab since yesterday morning at 6:30 am. how does everyone use it? I have been taking it with a spoonful of pudding. I am starting to feel odd, and I have a headache, any suggestions? Thanks for the help.
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Re: Quitting Vicodin with Kratom - my personal experience.


Since this board is so private I don't know you by your username so can't check what type you got. If it's the SE you might have taken too much if the SP same thing but I do remember in the beginning getting a slight headache for the first few days esp when I didn't tapered completely. It'll pass if it's not a too high dose feature , start with small amts and the feeling should be focused and no w'd feeling. If a 1/2 grm or 1 gram doesn't make your w/ds go away then take antoher 1/2 to 1 gram depending on the type until you find your correct dose. The headache I do remember ,but it passes, it's an adjustment and if your tolerance was high you have to remember it's going to take more but not too much of the kratom for the alkaloids to bind to your opiate receptors which are now screaming for more opiate then you're getting from the kratom but when you get past that and find the right dose , the tolerance will lower and you'll need less to have an easy time with either tapering or stopping compltely. They say that if you mix HC with kratom you won't get the effects of the HC , well I tapered with kratom and didn't crave them but still took what i had left like one a day was all i even wanted , not a craving more like a habit and I thoguht it would help. and it is true, you don't get the same effect from the HC when you take the kratom even though it's the same type not an antagonist it works the same , doesnt' block the opiate receptors lke sub , so I don't know why it doens't work the same with kratom but in my experience it didn't or else i just felt so good from the kratom that i didnt' even want to or think about taking a HC.
But the headache I have seen many people discuss and do remember that in the beginning i had to take so much , a tsp is 2 grams so that was my correct dose but i started with about 4 grams and that one HC a day b/c i thought it was the right way to taper but you really don't need to take them to taper, I think based on what you're saying and my experience that either you took too much or too little. Do you have any w/d feeling or anything beside the headache ? If i sent you any herb sample you might want to try that, PM me or email me if you want to talk more about this b/c it's kinda normal the headache and doesn't continue that way. I'm just hoping you're taking the right amt for your tolernace and not taking too much that it's going to be what i did, went through at least 300 g the first week, i know i overdid it but i really had a high tolerance and I did get that headache but not for long maybe the first few days, so don't let that scare you but of course if you think it's a differnt kind of headache or anything else wrong , see a dr. this isn't medical advice so I can't say the headache is directly related or not , if it gets worse of course see a dr. If i sent you blue lily flowers or red poppy flowers you can use that it should help ..so email me so i know what you have and how I can help and explain it better based on what you're using and how.

Good luck you can do this, it's just an adjustment in the beginning and most of it , for me wiht the very high doses was all mental , i just wanted More b/c i was so used to taking a pill every few hours or more.. so i did the same thing with the kratom and overdid that, it's just the way it is with anything esp things we get addicted to for whatever reason and then our minds mainly say well I need more that wasn't enough or the same.. it's not the same but it will help you get past the wd's or lower your tolerance and keep you focused. There are other herbs i mentioned above that enhance it for more energy or or more relaxing effects , so I hope I sent some , if not i will.. just email me so i can figure out how to help ok

thanks and keep posting , you're doing fine

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Re: Quitting Vicodin with Kratom - my personal experience.


(note: this post was originally written on Friday, 12/2 but I forgot to submit it so I am doing so now).

Hi all. I worked on one of my girls' classrooms all day, just got home and I am making my first cup of tea. I feel tired, but that's about it. I always feel tired after working in class, I don't know how those teachers do it! I usually have a cup of coffee when I drag like this in the afternoon but then I end up sleeping poorly that night and then I'm tired again the next day. Do today I decided to have some Kratom tea instead. I felt normal all day, functioned just fine. I'm so happy that I went the whole morning and afternoon taking NOTHING! I'm wondering if it is residual Kratom in my system from last night, or if I'm over the hump? I have to mention that, as you probably remember, I have a brand new bottle of 90 10/325's that I ordered before deciding to try quitting with the Kratom. they are sitting in my medicine cabinet. I have thought of them from time to time, but I haven't been the least bit tempted to touch them while taking the Kratom. I have to admit, the two days when I ran out of Kratom they were sounding pretty good, but since then they've held absolutely no allure for me. Isn't that amazing?

Hope all of you out there are doing well and are pain free!
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Someone on another forum asked me if I was starting to feel the horrible depression that so many people feel after they have gotten over the physical WD's of kicking hydrocodone. I thought I would post the answer here to in case it was helpful to anyone.

No I haven't felt the least bit depressed. I'm not kidding you, I feel really good thanks to the Kratom. It really just takes away the desire for the pills and for the feeling that the pills give. I think I read someone somewhere post that Kratom made them feel the same euphoria as Hydro, but I don't find that to be the case at all. Whereas the hydro makes you feel a sensation that is not normally felt without chemical help. It isn't a natural mood, or state of being. The Kratom, on the other hand, just puts me in a really good mood. Not euphoric, just chipper, and happy. The way you feel when you're getting ready to go somewhere and you're really excited about it. Or you just get hired on a new job you really wanted. Or you're spending time with a group of people who you love and are comfortable with. It makes you feel really, really good. Not escapist good. Normal good. I've never taken anit-depressants, but it seems to me as if this stuff would be the world's greatest anitdepressant. And it works right away, immediately, not two weeks the way most antidepressants have to be taken to build up in your system.

Eventually I want to stop taking the Kratom too, because as I've said I don't want to trade one addiction for another. But I've been thinking a lot about that, and I'm a lot less worried about it now. Even with the worst case scenario, which would be that Kratom is just as addicting as hydro, I am still already so much better off. First of all, I'm not hammering my liver with massive amounts of tylenol every day. It is SO bad for you liver I am afraid to think of what I've already done to it. Second, you don't have to see a Dr. or pay for a consult to get it and it is readily available online. It is a lot cheaper than the Hydro, especially when you consider the cost of meds and shipping and consults. Also, so far it seems to be doing a great job handling my pain, even with a severe flair-up that I had for a couple of days. And last, and probably most important, it is completely legal! I can order as much as I want, anytime i want, without doing the double or triple dipping that a person who takes as many pills as I was would theoretically have to do when ordering from the internet. Oh, and another bonus, I don't have to hide it from my husband or anyone else. I can be perfectly open and honest about the herbal remedy I ordered online to help with my back pain. And that alone is worth a million bucks.

Now, that is worse case scenario and I really don't think that is the case. From all my research it appears that Kratom can be physically addictive, but I don't think it is nearly as addictive as narcotics. Also, it seems to be much easier to taper off than hydros. From all I've read you can taper down without experienceing any WD symptoms, which we all know is very NOT true with hydro. I definitely want to get to a point where I don't have to take the Kratom, but I've decided to take it a little easier on that front. First of all I know that recovery from narcotic addiction can involve terrible depression. I really want to avoid as much as possible. So I'm hoping that since the opiod receptors that got abused by the hydro are now being left alone, my body will eventually start making normal levels of seratonin, which is what I understand causes the depression. So for the moment I guess I will consider Kratom to be my antidepressant. And boy howdy does it work! Also Monday I plan to get back on my hardcore exercise program and that is truly the world's greatest antidepressant.

Well, I continue to provide you all with probably MUCH more info than you wanted. I never plan to make my posts this long but once I get going I find I have so much to say that I end up writing a novel. It is just that I am feeling so darn good about not being on the vicodin anymore, I still can't believe that it has been over a week now without a single pill, when my whole day used to revolve around my pill bottle. No more waiting at home all day for FedEx because heaven forbid I wasn't there to sign and I didn't get my package.

Considering my experience, I don't believe that ANYONE has to go through the miserable detox experience of kicking hydro. Maybe it won't work as well as it has on me, but I know it has to make it a heck of a lot better. If you are currently suffering from WD's, please order some Kratom today. You won't believe the difference it makes. If you want to quit but are afraid to because of the WD's, I am telling you that the means to do it without that nightmare is within your reach. Just try it. Order a small amount, and one day just try it before you take your first pill that day. What have you got to lose? And honestly, I'm certainly no Dr. but if you are taking an antidepressant, take it from someone who should be suffering from severe depression right now due to addiction recovery, this stuff is great!

Okay, I really have to quit typing now. You all have a wonderful weekend, and as always, thanks so, so, so much for your support.
Dec/4/05, 8:36 am Link to this post Send Email to momtwotwogirls   Send PM to momtwotwogirls
 
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Re: Quitting Vicodin with Kratom - my personal experience.


Groupie88,
I also get the headaches but you know what cures them about 90% of the time? A big glass of water. I think when your body starts to flush the hydro out it is easy to get dehydrated. A few gulps of water and I feel better right away.

I started with the super powder, which I think is the best. The super enhanced made me a little too jittery. I mixed 1 to 1 1/2 tsp. with yougurt. You can also boil it with water to make tea but this is kind of messy with the powder.

Good luck!
Dec/4/05, 8:40 am Link to this post Send Email to momtwotwogirls   Send PM to momtwotwogirls
 
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Re: Quitting Vicodin with Kratom - my personal experience.


Hi [sign in to see URL] is the first chance I have had to be at the computer sharing it with kids and husband.I can identify with you on pain.I have A neck condition that freezes up my neck muscles,traetment when it happens vicodin and valium.I am also going to need A hysterectomy in the near [sign in to see URL] happens when I am prescribed pain pills is I don't take as [sign in to see URL] intention to is there but one is not enough always seems to prevail.I have not had an episode with my neck in A few months.I now take Kratom powder twice A day for three to four days than take A break from it.I have not had any withdrawl symptoms from kratom so [sign in to see URL] now kratom seems to help me with fatigue and depression which are major triggers for me.I used to pop 3 or 4 pills with my morning coffee just to get my housework done and continued to do this around the clock for months at A time until I would hit the wall.I was sick with them and I was sick without them.I hope you are doing [sign in to see URL] care
Dec/5/05, 12:07 pm Link to this post Send Email to naturalmom   Send PM to naturalmom
 
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You can do it Theo emoticon
Dec/11/05, 10:11 am Link to this post Send Email to naturalmom   Send PM to naturalmom
 


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